dragonspell | Joss Whedon Pisses Me Off

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Joss Whedon Pisses Me Off

Thank you, Joss Whedon, for managing to kill off any interest I might have had in yet another fandom with your last installment of said fandom's series.

This is the second time that this has happened and I'm beginning to think that if I ever have an insane urge to watch something made by him again, I'm just going to watch the first part and consider that to be everything. It's not worth the rage I will feel if I watch to the end.

This is brought to you by Serenity, the movie that could have been good and the ending to the awesome but cancelled TV show Firefly.

Total spoiler, but why the fuck did he need to die? No, seriously. Why the fuck did he need to die? He could have just been injured. I know that it wouldn't have been nearly as ~dramatic~ and shit but, fuck, man. I'm beginning to think that Joss is only good at creating a series/characters and writing snappy dialogue--so the beginning and the middle of a series--but he is complete SHIT at plot (thus, skip the end).

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I agree with you. Joss said himself that he loves creating lovable characters and then killing them off. He likes angst too much.

>=( And that right there would be a good reason for me not to watch anymore of his shows. I hate angst. Or rather, I hate angst just for the sake of angst. I want my favorite characters to LIVE.

Once again, totally agreement. I was a mega huge Buffy/Angel fan (just like I am now with SPN). I lost count how many fave characters (from both shows) were killed off.

I was never that big of a Buffy fan but, man did I like Angel. And I was generally okay with it until that last little freaking bit (except for the whole Fred thing). Then I was just DDDDDD: And I have yet to actually watch the last 15 minutes of the last episode (I'd recorded it and the tape ran out before the end--after watching the first half hour, though, I was pretty freaking sure I didn't want to watch the rest).

It's like "Why? Why would you do that?" Because killing off characters like that is a surefire way to kill a fandom dead. I dropped interest in Angel immediately after that last episode because I just can't ignore a canon like that. Same was Firefly (though I just "discovered" it this past week). I'm thinking, though, that I'll just pretend that the movie doesn't even exist and then I can still watch the TV show.

*nods* That's probably for the best. The movie was awesome in the action-fight-scenes aspect, but the character deaths pissed me off as well. And about the last Angel episode....part of me loved the ending and part of me hated it and wished for a new ending. Luckily, there's comics that continued the storyline so that calmed me. Same with Buffy. The show ended with Season 7 but they made Season 8 into a comic series.

I found myself getting kind of bored sometimes during the fight scenes--there was a lot of them and they ran for awhile. They were awesome--good choreography and all--but not necessarily my thing.

I think with Angel I was most angry about Lindsey. What a waste of a totally awesome freaking character. That's what Joss does a lot, though--creates these awesome freaking characters and then either lets them languish or kills them off. He rarely ever manages to use them well (ultimately). Maybe that's why nobody watched Firefly--they started liking the characters but knew that Joss would fuck them up somehow and that it wasn't worth the pain to keep watching and get more attached.

After that ending I had no reason, in my mind, to read the comics. Are they any good?

I think so, but I'm a comic girl at heart lol . I loved the Spike comics that came out after Angel finished. And that's another thing. Angel got ****ed in the end cause it was canceled too soon (much like all of Joss' other works). It was planned to go on 7 seasons like Buffy but they had to wrap up plans for two full seasons in the last half of Season 5. I think it would've done a lot better if they were allowed the extra two seasons. But all-in-all, the series that closely follows the ending of Angel is a comic series called "After The Fall". And if you're upset about what happened to Wesley, I strongly suggest you read the comics.

And yes, I was also pissed off about Lindsey. I love Christian Kane and was upset about what they put the character through in the show, especially the ending. Also, I liked Penn (if you remember him). I would've loved to see more about him, even as a baddie. And I actually cried when Fred died and was turned into Illyria (even though I thought the blue lady was kick-ass).

Angel totally got fucked because that show deserved at least another season.

I was extremely upset about what happened to Wesley, so maybe I will check out the comics. =\

Lindsey deserved a lot better than he got and, like I said, could have been used better (Christian Kane rocks). Penn, yeah, him, too.

OMG, Fred. ;_; I spent entire episodes in denial about her death, just CONVINCED that she was somehow going to come back (though, yeah, I liked Illyria, too).

Fred's death was probably one of the saddest death scenes I have ever watched on television. Congrats to Joss on that (if only that) but then the congrats is taken away for killing her in the first place. And yes, Illyria was awesome. I laughed every time she called Spike her pet lol . And one thing to add: I hated Eve with a passion and hoped she died a bloody and horrible death. I never liked her and hoped the Whedon curse would get her sooner then it did (if it did)

We are in complete agreement about Eve. Hated her with a passion, too. >=( Now, Lilah, I liked.

She did have a certain spunky feel and I did like her being paired up with Wesley. Of course that was before Fred came into the picture. Never liked Fred with Gun (though I did like him). Nerds loving nerds is cute and Fred and Wesley were the biggest nerds ever lol

I tended to like Wesley with everyone. XD Angel, Lilah, Fred, Connor... He was like a particularly good wine: he went well with anything. I also agree with you on the Gunn/Fred angle. Her and Wesley were much cuter together. Personally, though, I would have loved to have see Gunn used for something else and Lindsey used as the head of the law department--but, ah, there's my bias again.

Oooooh, Lindsey would've been awesome as head of the law department. I didn't like the whole "zapping law smarts in Gun's head" thing. I think he would've been better doing what he did before. Being the muscle and handle weapons or something. That's what made him so bad-ass and awesome. And yeah lol I could see Wesley with any of them (though I'm more of a Angel/Spike fan myself ;) ). And I loved Spike's big brother type role with Fred. Her death hurt him so much :( . You could see that clearly.

See, I would have liked that, too. Why didn't he become head of the securities division or something? Where he'd get to see all KINDS of cool weapons?

Hee. There were a couple of pairings that I liked in Angel. Angel/Spike was one of my favorites. Angel/Wesley, Wesley/Connor, and Angel/Lindsey (oh hell yes (and thus why I wanted to see more of him)).

Oh, I know. =( Spike isn't used to having people around that he cares about much less having them die on him.

killing off characters like that is a surefire way to kill a fandom dead

I never thought about that before, but you're totally right. The fandom for "Angel" just doesn't exist any more.

I don't trust Joss at all.

See? That's why I hate it when creators take their toys like that and go home. >=( It's all "Yeah, I get that you're pissed but you have no fucking clue what you've just done, have you?" You would think that an actually GOOD creator would want their show to live on in fan's hearts.

There are still some fandoms whose shows are LONG gone but they still continue on because of their amazing endings. And then there are some that just ceased to be because of how they ended.

I will never trust him again, either. >=(

I hated that he died near end of the movie :( I felt really gutted in that moment when I watched it for the first time.

I know, right?! Of ALL people! I was like what?! I thought that he was safe! I thought that, if anything, I'd have to say goodbye to Jayne or Simon or Kaylee. Not freaking Walsh. Especially after the Shepard died--I mean, there's your freaking drama--it's already been done.

I'm never watching that movie again. In fact, much like Torchwood's Children of Earth, I'm going to pretend that it doesn't even exist.

I hate those creators who like to use death as a plot device, it's such bullshit. But apart from Buffy, I'm pretty much Whedon free lol.

I think that you hit the nail right on the head there. He is using death as a cheap way of trying to ratchet up the drama and that just does NOT sit right with me--not after I've just become so invested in the characters already. It's exactly why I don't watch disaster movies or zombie movies or horror flicks: characters are going to die for no good reason.

I'm pretty sure that I just want to avoid Whedon in the future.

No, he didn't die. In my world, it never happened. He just... was laid up in a hospital for the last so-many minutes of the movie.

*hug* I'm sorry you had to witness that.

Exactly. Joss Whedon fans have to be well-versed in canon denial and selective memory. He was just laid-up and that was totally a monument and not a tombstone. >=(

Gah. I should have known that I'd be disappointed.

I don't know what movie you're talking about and I've never seen anything by Joss Whedon, BUT YOU ARE SAD AND THAT MAKES ME SAD :(

It's a sci-fi show starring the ever hot Nathan Fillion (Castle) (it's the show that put him on the map). Watch the show, skip the movie. ;_;

*clings*

My brother and I went to see the film in the cinema and we both knew about one of the deaths (the first one) and we had heard there was going to be a second death but we assumed it was going to be the ship "dying" so we both jumped and looked at each other in horror and disbelief at the second one. I was very angry and just lost all hope at that point (maybe that was his plan) but I didn't care what happened to the rest of the crew as I just assumed they would all die at that point.

Joss Whedon upsets me sometimes.

See, I accepted the first death. I wasn't too particularly happy with it but, out of all the characters, you kind of expected his. He was older, more mysterious, with some deep ties to something (what a waste, though). So I was just kind of like, okay. They got that out of their system. We're good now.

And then to have them go through ALL OF THAT and to land freaking safely and then to just kill him. And you know what? My friend and I both did the same thing, too--that jump and look of disbelief. And YES! I thought that they were all going to die at that point, too! Zoe, and Jayne, and Kaylee, and Simon. When the camera panned back to Mal I was literally shouting at the TV "NO! NOT Mal" because I thought that were losing them all.

That moment made me hate the movie. Joss Whedon needs to learn how to create a show/movie that has some REWATCH value. Because I will never rewatch that movie.

As much as I adore Joss, I don't get it either. Looking at it from a fan's point of view, I loved him way too much to see him go. There was no way we should have anticipated this because of all of them... him? Really?

As a writer I don't see the point either. It didn't further the plot along and him being alive would not have changed anything that happened for the rest of the movie.

I can't negate the movie in my head, but I'm going with crazy-chick and brother work a miracle and everyone else was too busy to notice not-quite-dead instead of all-dead (God where is Miracle Max when you need him!)

*hugs*

Exactly! Why him? I mean, really? I would have expected Zoe before him and then have him be all dead inside. And, no, it didn't further the plot at all! If he was on the brink of life and death, and they were dragging him along, it would have done the same exact thing but there still would have been the hope--and I probably would have liked the movie at the end if he had lived.

I like how you think. And then they totes just put up a monument for him at the end instead of a tombstone because he was in the hospital and they were praying for him. =(

I just wanted to come to Joss's defense for a second heh. Joss hadn't planned on killing him, but prior to filming he learned that the actor's schedule was chaotic (he ended up filming 4 movies that year) and thus they had to work around his schedule, so to make it easier Joss killed him and set it up to look as though they were all gonna die.

With that said Whedon does like to kill characters and normally that works for me because in real life Heroes do sadly die. The death that truly made me want to stab Whedon in the eyes was Doyle. Honestly Fred's never mattered to me because I was never invested in her character and Cordy and Wes were just obvious IMO. Lindsey's death did piss me off. Not only did he kill one of my favorite frienemies, he also made Lorne a killer and that did not sit well with me.

Nonono! You have it all wrong. Lorne and Lindsey ran off together and bought a karaoke bar in Barbados, and lived happily ever after...

This message brought to you by denial - not just a river in Egypt.

Edited 2011-05-17 02:35 (UTC)

That's how I felt when I saw Serenity. Refuse to watch any more Whedon now. The bad guy was totally awesome, but he destroyed canon, killed unnecessarily and just murdered a show I loved.

See? And I just have to ignore that the movie exists because I don't want to ignore the show. ;_; I suppose, though, that I am well versed in this as I ignore that Children of Earth exists for Torchwood already...

He should have figured out a way to save them all instead of going for the ~dramatic tension.

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Joss Whedon Pisses Me Off

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